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ViragoTechForum.com Electronics Total Electrical System Failure ( SOLVED )

#1:  Total Electrical System Failure ( SOLVED ) Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:44 am

Yesterday evening I went out riding -
Stopped and shut off bike - then when I tried to start it again - Nothing.
No lights, no crank - no click -Nothing
Battery was completely dead!

Put the battery on charge, and it charged right up ( 13.01V ), but still - Nothing - no juice anywhere.

Fuses all check good
Stator checks good I believe, but R/R readings don't match anything I can find.

Can a bad R/R cause a complete electrical failure?

I'm not an electrical person and don't know which way to turn.

Gary


Last edited by 48vintage on Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

#2:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:43 am

gary
i will help.. give me a sec..ok.....dan

#3:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:05 pm

http://www.viragotech.com/wiring/84_85_FIXED_XV700_XV1000.jpg

did you just put in a new battery??
if you are checking voltage at the battery then you have a volt meter?
put the positive lead on the positive battery term. put the neg lead on the neg mount on the bike.. checking if you lost ground or positive....dan

#4:   Author: grazingazer Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:08 pm

it really sounds like a main fuse issue gary...sometimes the fuse can look good and still be bad...did you check the main fuse with an ohmeter?

#5:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:25 pm

Not a new battery.

Positive lead on positive terminal - neg lead to frame ground = 12.91 VDC

I have the R/R off the bike
Using 200k scale w/ pos lead on the red wire . . resistance reads 57.4 ~57.7 ohms to each of the white wires . .
resistance between each of the whites = 108.5 ~ 108.9 ohms

#6:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:28 pm

grazingazer wrote (View Post):
it really sounds like a main fuse issue gary...sometimes the fuse can look good and still be bad...did you check the main fuse with an ohmeter?

Yep . . 0 resistance

#7:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:33 pm

do you have voltage at the red wire at the r/r ?

#8:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:46 pm

totallyredvirago wrote (View Post):
do you have voltage at the red wire at the r/r ?

yep - 12.9v

#9:   Author: grazingazer Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:05 pm

to correctly check the regulator you need to check for continuity and lack of continuity on the three white wires...selecting pairs of wires check first for continuity then when the meter leads are reversed there should be no continuity...labeling the wires will keep you from repeating the test on the same pair of wires...if any pair of wires shows continuity with the meter leads reversed then the r/r is defective

#10:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:17 pm

next will be the kill switch 12v in the switch and 12v out....dan

#11:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:19 pm

grazingazer wrote (View Post):
to correctly check the regulator you need to check for continuity and lack of continuity on the three white wires...selecting pairs of wires check first for continuity then when the meter leads are reversed there should be no continuity...labeling the wires will keep you from repeating the test on the same pair of wires...if any pair of wires shows continuity with the meter leads reversed then the r/r is defective


It doesn't seem to make any difference reversing the leads of the VOM . . either way the readings between each pair of white wires is 108.5 ~ 108.9 on the 200k ohm scale

#12:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:35 pm

totallyredvirago wrote (View Post): next will be the kill switch 12v in the switch and 12v out....dan


Dan . .kill switch off w/ the VOM on the 20VDC scale . .
one side =0v the other 0.11v
switch in run position both sides read 0.11V

#13:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:43 pm

found it!!!!!!!
now trace back to the fuse 20amp... does the fuse have 12v on both sides??
if it does then the open is between the fuse and the kill switch....dan

#14:   Author: grazingazer Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:47 pm

you have without a doubt a defective r/r gary: specifically the rectifier diodes are fried click here

Last edited by grazingazer on Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

#15:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:50 pm

Dan - where is the 20a fuse?

#16:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:56 pm

gary
i do not know where the fuse is on the 700... very sorry.. also do they run all the connectors inside the headlight?? again sorry about the 20amp fuse....dan

#17:   Author: grazingazer Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:00 pm

should find the 20a under the seat...follow the small red wire from the battery pos terminal

#18:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:11 pm

i dont know graz.. in the diagram they show it up by the kill switch.. i know the 750's are under the seat....dan
gary it will be the only inline fuse on a 12 gauge red wire

#19:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:35 pm

The only 20A fuse is the main fuse and it's under the seat . . It's been checked okay.
The one shown in the diagram up by the kill is the ignition fuse and it's a 10A and under the cover where the indicator lights are under the speedo/tach.

Graz - Would a fried rectifier cause complete loss of juice?

#20:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:43 pm

so there is one under the seat.. ok.. and that fuse is good.. the connector for the kill switch should be inside the headlight.. can you get to that??....dan

#21:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:59 pm

Dan . . yes - I have the headlight out of the housing and have unplugged/replugged everything a few times . . .

But now I have lights again, and the solenoid clicks when the start button is pressed?

Gary

#22:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:11 pm

now check for 12v at the connector again.. 12v should be at both red wires with switch on....dan

if you have 12v at both wires then leave the meter on one and wiggle the harness see if the 12v drops off.

#23:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:25 pm

Ignition on - kill to run - 9.7v both sides
kill off - 9.7v one side
Battery is down to 12.85v

Gary

#24:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:53 pm

ok you 12.9 at the r/r.. and 9.7 at the kill switch..
the red wire that stays hot when the kill switch is off.. this is the wire we need to find out where you are loosing 3.2v.. in summery
you have 12.9v at the fuse and r/r... this same wire feeds the kill switch where you have 9.7v..
unplug the kill switch and check the power wire.. see if it goes to 12.9v. with the switch unplugged....dan

#25:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:14 pm

Okay - red/white wires have 11.95v on both sides of kill w/ ignition on.

r/w wire comes off the main switch through the 10a ign fuse - Can't unplug w/o unplugging blue & black wires also

#26:   Author: grazingazer Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:15 pm

48vintage wrote (View Post):
The only 20A fuse is the main fuse and it's under the seat . . It's been checked okay.
The one shown in the diagram up by the kill is the ignition fuse and it's a 10A and under the cover where the indicator lights are under the speedo/tach.

Graz - Would a fried rectifier cause complete loss of juice?
it would if the red wire shorted out in the regulator and fried the rectifier...does the battery get its juice back when you unplug the r/r?

#27:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:44 pm

Graz

The batt voltage does not drop w/ the R/R plugged in.

I have to quit for tonight . . wife is lonely in the house and it's 112 in the barn now & I'm burned up too.

Thanks for the help so far!

Gary

#28:   Author: grazingazer Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:55 pm

what i meant to say was does the voltage drop go away when you unplug the regulator which i think is toast...i was addressing the voltage drop issues that you and dan have been discussing...dandelion root tea will aid you immeasurably in dealing with high ambient temparatures...i drink it religiously while pushmowing my lawn in 100+ degree temps down here in the swamp

#29:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:10 pm

Do ya pick your own or buy it?

Guess I will but a new R/R and try again.

Gary

#30:   Author: grazingazer Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:38 pm

i buy it in bulk and use a chinese tea ball steeping in boiling water for about 5 minutes...it's good for stomach problems too

#31:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:05 pm

Dan - I'm confused -
there is no red wire to the engine stop switch ( kill switch ) - there are 2 red/white wires on the kill, one in and one out.

The red wire that comes off the battery goes to the starter relay, the main fuse, the R/R and to the main switch.

The red/white wire comes from the main switch ~ ignition fuse to the stop switch and onward . . .

HERE is a copy of the factory wiring diagram for XV700

#32:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:37 pm

damn!!! yes i was wrong!!!! its not the kill switch.. its the ignition switch..
man i am so sorry..
so i should have had you check the power 12.9v wire at the ignition switch..(red)
have you checked the ignition switch??
battery to 20amp fuse to r/r to solenoid switch to the ignition switch..
power out of the ignition switch is blue (lights) and brown.. brown feeds the kill switch along with other things.. the brown wire turns to red/white at the connector... again sorry...dan
http://www.viragotech.com/wiring/84_85_FIXED_XV700_XV1000.jpg
i posted this on the first page. this is the one i am going off of.

#33:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:59 pm

Dan . . no problem, haven't checked that route yet, but it'll have to wait til tomorrow . . it's too late tonight for this old man.

I have that wiring diagram also - along w/ PDF copies of the Haynes, Clymer and Factory Repair Manuals, I'd be happy to share w/ anyone - if I knew how to get it to them.

Gary

#34:   Author: grazingazer Post Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:31 pm

pdfs can be posted as attachments

#35:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:19 am

Thanks Graz -
I attached a copy of the factory manual & put it in Tech Articles
Feel free to move it if there is another/better topic it should have went into.

Gary

#36:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:03 am

gary
so far up to date.. you did get the lights to come on and a relay to click??
did you get some power back?? ....dan

#37:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:40 am

Dan - not been out this mornin' yet, but yes the lights ( headlight remover at the time ) came on and I did get a click when the start switch was pressed, but after a few clicks trying to locate what was clicking the lights went back off . . I'll be going back out in a bit, before it gets too hot.

#38:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:59 am

ok not pushing you.. just trying to regroup my thoughts..
so what i am picking up so far. there is a problem inside the headlight rats nest..
take a good look at the ignition switch. they have been known to go bad....dan

#39:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:23 am

Okay - I've rechecked everything again -
12.85v at batt -starter relay- and ignition switch plug (engine side)
turn on key - relay clicks -
hit start button starter relay chatters shortly & dash lights dim quickly.

Gary

#40:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:59 am

gary
it sounds like 1 of 2 things.. 1 starter drawing too many amps. or too much resistance in a wire..
is there anyway to jump the starter direct?
if you can and it turns over normal then we know its not the starter.....dan

#41:   Author: grazingazer Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:11 am

there is a third possibility that could explain everything and that would be an internal short in the battery which fried the r/r...i'd run a hydrometer test on the battery

#42:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:18 am

Don't have a cable to jump directly to starter motor.

12.8v from starter relay to starter post
0 ohms from neg battery to starter post?

#43:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:20 am

grazingazer wrote (View Post):
there is a third possibility that could explain everything and that would be an internal short in the battery which fried the r/r...i'd run a hydrometer test on the battery


Graz - it's a sealed battery

#44:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:27 am

can you disconnect the bike battery and use a car battery in its place?? .....dan

#45:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:45 am

Could if I had one available . . I have another M/C battery but it is discharged . . put it on to charge, but all I have is the battery tender and it'll take some time to charge.

#46:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:50 am

battery maybe showing good volts but may not have any amps.. this very well could be the problem.....dan

#47:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:38 am

Well . . just took the battery to the AutoZone and had it checked -
Although it is rated at 22A w/ 350 CCA,
Fully charged ( 12.85V ) it tested @ only 5 CCA,
so I'll have to buy a new one, but that will have to wait until the 3rd when my Social Security check comes in.

Guess I'll spring for a new R/R then too.

Thanks for your help so far and I'll revive this then.

Gary

#48:   Author: grazingazer Post Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:51 am

that's usually an indication of an internal short gary...good luck brother

#49:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:01 am

Thanks Graz - hopefully the batt & R/R will bring it back to life.

Gary

#50:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:35 pm

Just put in a new sealed AGM battery - 18A 340CCA from Advance Auto - $90

Installed a new R/R off eBay from rmstatorinc -$55.95 including shipping

Now I'm up and running again . . . started right up - 2.5k rpms 14.65V at battery

Thanks for the help friends - I owe ya a cold one!

Gary

#51:  Re: Total Electrical System Failure ( SOLVED ) Author: grazingazer Post Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:37 pm

Beers

#52:   Author: mark75 Post Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:58 pm

kewl!

#53:   Author: Jake Post Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:21 pm

48vintage wrote (View Post): Just put in a new sealed AGM battery - 18A 340CCA from Advance Auto - $90
I guess you didn't beat my record

#54:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:42 pm

Jake wrote (View Post):
48vintage wrote (View Post): Just put in a new sealed AGM battery - 18A 340CCA from Advance Auto - $90
I guess you didn't beat my record


Well that old Battery lasted from 02/19/07 until 06/23/10 . . 3 years 4 months

#55:   Author: Jake Post Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:53 pm

Still a longer life than most.

#56:   Author: totallyredvirago Post Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:21 pm

way to go!!! glad it is up and running for you....dan

#57:   Author: grazingazer Post Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:22 pm

try padding the new one if you can gary...it works on sportsters

#58:   Author: 48vintage Post Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:03 am

grazingazer wrote (View Post):
try padding the new one if you can gary...it works on sportsters


Had to remove the foam spacer just to squeeze this monster into the box as it is - no possibility of padding it - lol

Gary
ViragoTechForum.com Electronics Total Electrical System Failure ( SOLVED )


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