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ViragoTechForum.com » Choppers, Customs, Café » Rear Rim on the Front Part I made by Cafe-XV750

#1: Rear Rim on the Front Part I made by Cafe-XV750 Author: Exitspeed,

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:54 am

This is more Cafe-XV750 thread as he is the one building and selling these kits.

One of the things I dislike most about the Virago is the large front rim.

I know everyone is familiar with with Zero Cafe's awesome bike and I see he has done this and it looks pretty god dang sweet.

What would all be involved? Is it a SERIOUS undertaking?

It seems that rear rims are pretty cheap.

#2: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:01 pm

it requires machining the hub

#3: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:17 am

I've figured out how to do this - will require the use of a custom machined bolt-on brake rotor hub adapter, a drum-side filler cover and some properly sized bearings.

The wheel mods are fairly straightforward - IMO it won't even require taking to a machine shop to make it work. Will require some DIY drilling, cutting & (body) grinder clean-up.

I'm looking into making my adapters now. If others are interested in doing this mod, I might be interested in making more and selling at a fair price (TBD). Let me know if you're interested either in this post or via PM.

I'll post up pics if there is interest and when I have in-process.

#4: Author: Exitspeed,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:48 am

Cafe-XV750 wrote (View Post): › I've figured out how to do this - will require the use of a custom machined bolt-on brake rotor hub adapter, a drum-side filler cover and some properly sized bearings.

The wheel mods are fairly straightforward - IMO it won't even require taking to a machine shop to make it work. Will require some DIY drilling, cutting & (body) grinder clean-up.

I'm looking into making my adapters now. If others are interested in doing this mod, I might be interested in making more and selling at a fair price (TBD). Let me know if you're interested either in this post or via PM.

I'll post up pics if there is interest and when I have in-process.

Hmmm, I might be interested in this depending on the cost. The only thing that is stopping me from being completely gung hoe about it is that i just bought new tires.

If you have an idea on price LMK and that might help me decide too.

#5: Author: scootermcq,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:55 am

ES... you had a double post on the same thread. I killed one off for you to avoid confusion for people replying to you.

#6: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:34 pm

cafe
YES YES YES AND YES!!!
i have a spare rear wheel. was looking into doing this also. but lack of know how killed my plans.......dan

#7: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:08 pm

The other thread mentioned that I've only figured this out for first-gen '81-83 XV750 (ie. a single disk front).

I haven't looked into adapting to a dual disk front.

#8: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:11 pm

are the front and rear axles the same diameter?

#9: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:21 pm

No - rear is 17 and front is 15. The brake hub adapter (LH side) will package the 15 (6302) bearing/seal(s) and speedo drive setup just like the original front wheel.

Trying to decide if I want to sleeve in a 6203 into the RHS (drum side) of the wheel or have a stepped axle (for the original 6303). I'm working closely with Timken on a work project right now so I'm getting guidance from the best (and my main contact is a biker and thinks cafe'ing a Virago is cool)!

It was downright freaky how centered the wheels are to each other when you lay them down on a flat surface on their RH sides. Made this relatively easy to figure out the rotor adapter and drum filler dimensions.

Last edited by Cafe-XV750 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

#10: Author: Exitspeed,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:26 pm

How much will this lower the bike? Like 2" or so?

#11: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:36 pm

cafe
didnt they lath the outer drum? i didnt see the bracket mount..
rear on the front 3inch fork drop......ooohh my
wont be able to go over speed bumps...lol.....dan

#12: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:40 pm

Depends on the specs of the actual tire, but 'by the math' tire calculators predict a 0.44" drop (with stock forks) if a 130/90-16 tire were used front/rear. Speedo would read just over 2 MPH faster than actual.

IMO that 130/90-16 tire is a tight fit (it does, but just barely). A 120/90-16 is a better width choice, but they are hard to find (I've only found one so far in online searches). That drop would be 0.8" with stock forks ... and the speedo would read 4 MPH faster than actual.

You could lathe the drum and drive side if you want to be very precise and clean about it, but my adapters will only need some clean-up type clearance. IMO if you are careful with a cutoff and grinder you will achieve the same thing - there are guidance surfaces on the wheel that can be used as 'don't go past here' stops. My adapters won't rely on these modified surfaces at all.

See how low Cafe Zero really is? No speed bumps for sure - high driveway entrances might be a challenge too!

#13: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:01 pm

ok just checked my spare rear tire 130/90-16. if i put 90lbs in it will it give more of a fit...lol.. looking to find my spare (backing plate). going to grind off the bracket mount.i have a spare front and rear axle.(front with speedometer gear)....what do i need to do to get the rotor to mount?.....dan

#14: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:12 pm

if you attempt to put ninety pounds in there you may need first aid if not intensive care

#15: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:24 pm

graz
you are quick....
ok the tire is a dunlop k627. it dont bevel at the top. it is more rounded..the things i dont like about it is. 1 looks to be a very hard compound...2 has a tread that you would want for off roading.. but hey its a tire... good for trial and error.. the other question i have when you checked tire clearance. did you have a front fender on or not/......dan

#16: Author: Matthew,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:59 pm

K627 is a good tire, thats a euro tread design you see on allot of 70s early 80s bikes. Mine stuck like glue in all conditions even a high speed hop in a turn, [hit a bump and rear goes air born, scoots over then comes back down.] though I do have the added rain grove down the center. Bolt for custom fender stuck down to far, instant rain grove;)

I prefer that type of tire over the newer kind. Like the touring or sport bikes type ones, with that hard lip shoulder on the tread. I like the wrap around the sides tread.
http://viragotech.com/tires2.jpg

#17: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:16 pm

matthew
that link shows my back tire!!! you are good.
i was going to put that on my bike but the rubber dont feel like rubber.(if you know what i mean). feels like it would not stick to the road. unless i was in texas on a 120 degree day. and between the hot sun and pavement melting the rubber to stick.. am i wrong on what i feel in the rubber?....dan

#18: Author: Matthew,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:26 pm

no its "hard" but tires do heat up quick with riding. They used good rubber.

#19: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:28 pm

thanks for the info.....dan

#20: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:53 pm

A factory drum plate won't work - wheel will be too wide. That is why I will have a new drum filller cover. Will look something like this ...

The rotor adapter hub will look like this (5x M10 and 6x M8 threaded holes) ...

You won't be using the front fender with a 130/90-16 tire for sure. A 120/90-16 might just clear, but I don't really know ... I'm not planning on using a front fender (like Cafe Zero).

#21: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:01 pm

pretty good freehand and it looks doable too but id say you'll need a lathe to maintain tolerances and keep runout to a minimum

#22: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:06 pm

I design engines for a living ... that is 3D CAD. Those parts will have to be made with a lathe.

The modified surfaces on the wheel won't have to be lathe machined - they will just be for clearance as they will not directly contact any of the faces on the drum filler or rotor adapter hub. The already critically machined wheel surfaces are used for mounting.

#23: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: kman,

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:40 pm

Hey Cafe i'm interested in this mod also,hows it coming along? I see your in ann arbor i'm in kalamazoo.

#24: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:59 pm

Quotes are coming in slow ... will update when I can.

#25: Author: Verbious,

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:50 am

Would this mod work for a 15" wheel? never mind. There do not appear to be very many front 15" tires.

So with the addition of the fat front tire, the Virago would become a Fat Virago.

Does Fat Virago = Fat Warrior Woman?

#26: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:44 am

how much leaning do you think you'll be able to do on two 16" tires...harleys ground their frames on corners you'll be grounding an aluminum engine Beers

#27: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:12 pm

Finally getting some good quotes for the adapter parts - hope to make a sourcing decision this coming weekend and make a conversion kit cost announcement soon!

#28: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:51 am

i have the rear rim ready.. what do i need to remove for the adapters?
i know the final drive gear has to come off. what about the other side.(dust shield) ?
cant wait!!!!!....dan

#29: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:08 pm

How does a $100+shipping conversion kit sound?

Conversion kit would include;
- Rotor hub adapter
- Drum filler cover
- New 6302 bearing (LH)
- New 6303 bearing (RH)
- 6303 bearing ID reducer (for 15mm front axle)
- 5x M10x1.25 bolts & washers (for hub attachment)
- Instructions

The LH front wheel seals from your original front 19" wheel should be easy to remove w/o damage (mine pulled out easy) to be re-used. Supplying new bearings because it is hard to remove the bearings w/o damaging them for re-use. Original brake rotor bolts and speedo drive plate(s) would be re-used as well.

If you have a cut-off tool and/or angle grinder you can modify the wheel & axle spacer for the parts to fit yourself. If not then you might need to have machined somewhere. Of course, you need to decide what tire to install.

Once I have parts, I plan to update this thread with a DIY install w/pics ... not for about a month yet.

Opinions? Anyone interested in pre-ordering (in-full or deposit)?

#30: Author: Exitspeed,

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:37 pm

Cafe-XV750 wrote (View Post): ›
How does a $100+shipping conversion kit sound?

Conversion kit would include;
- Rotor hub adapter
- Drum filler cover
- New 6302 bearing (LH)
- New 6303 bearing (RH)
- 6303 bearing ID reducer (for 15mm front axle)
- 5x M10x1.25 bolts & washers (for hub attachment)
- Instructions

The LH front wheel seals from your original front 19" wheel should be easy to remove w/o damage (mine pulled out easy) to be re-used. Supplying new bearings because it is hard to remove the bearings w/o damaging them for re-use. Original brake rotor bolts and speedo drive plate(s) would be re-used as well.

If you have a cut-off tool and/or angle grinder you can modify the wheel & axle spacer for the parts to fit yourself. If not then you might need to have machined somewhere. Of course, you need to decide what tire to install.

Once I have parts, I plan to update this thread with a DIY install w/pics ... not for about a month yet.

Opinions? Anyone interested in pre-ordering (in-full or deposit)?

$100 sounds good to me. Now I just have to try and locate a cheap rear wheel. I'm in for after the holidays. I HAVE to get my ride going next spring.

#31: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:59 pm

soooo do you have any made yet? or am i going to have to wait a month? i will do any method you want...the only thing i ask is i want my pat.# to be 00002...lol....have you tested this yet? do you have an idea how long it will live? and last for now... will the speedo be off much?......dan

#32: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: kman,

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:43 pm

100 sounds good to me i'm in, just need to find a rim now,lol Hey know of anyone here in Michigan that has any buy chance. When do you think you'll have a pic of the rim on the bike?

#33: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:18 pm

working off of this bike......dan
look at those lowered forks!!!!! sick!!!!

Zero_cafe007.jpg

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#34: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:48 pm

Will be a few weeks before I have parts to mod up my wheel so I haven't tested (fit, ride, etc.) ... but I'm not expecting any issues.

I picked up my rear wheel off of eBay for $4 (with crappy tire, drum brake, drive hub and axle!) ... cost $20 to ship it, but it was still worth it.

Speedo will depend on what tire size you use - indicated will read ~2.5 MPH faster than actual with a 130/90-16 or ~4 MPH faster than actual with a 120/90-16.

#35: Author: motormouse,

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:03 pm

Verbious wrote (View Post): ›
Would this mod work for a 15" wheel? never mind. There do not appear to be very many front 15" tires.

So with the addition of the fat front tire, the Virago would become a Fat Virago.

Does Fat Virago = Fat Warrior Woman?

You can use a rear tire on the front by mounting it backwards.

#36: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:05 pm

are you taking orders now? or should i wait until yours is done?...dan

#37: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:56 am

There are plenty of 130/90-16 front tire options out there. 120/90-16s aren't as easy to find ... only one I've found is the Duro Excursion (HF261A - universal front/rear).

Up to you if you want to order/deposit now or wait until I have the mod done and shown on mine. I was hoping to get enough interest to make a 20-set production run, but it's feeling more like a 10-set production run right now. If you want to order/deposit, send me a PM and we'll work it out.

#38: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 7:02 pm

pm being sent....dan

#39: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: kman,

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:22 pm

Any word yet on the mod? finally found a cheap wheel should be here in a week, cant wait to get this one going,lol

#40: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:54 pm

as far as i know. he got his parts and installing them..he is taking orders just pm him.. ....dan

#41: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:17 am

Parts are still being made by the machinist - probably a week or two away from having them yet. I have the other parts ready to complete the 'kit'.

I'll post pics up when ready and will let everyone know.

#42: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:20 am

my bad.. i thought you had your parts and was putting it together...dan

#43: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: MOTOGREG,

Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:34 pm

I'd also be down to buy a kit. As soon as pics are up payment will be heading your way! :grin:

#44: Author: steveschmucker2005,

Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:29 pm

totallyredvirago wrote (View Post): › working off of this bike......dan
look at those lowered forks!!!!! sick!!!!

i too am working from this design. im using a yamaha 1979 xs750 triple though.

Last edited by steveschmucker2005 on Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

#45: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:08 pm

Have all the parts in hand. Hope to complete the initial fitment and write-up about it this holiday weekend.

#46: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: vigo1,

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:00 am

Count me in!!!

Please let me know when you are ready.

thanks

#47: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: dep378,

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:23 am

Count me in as well.

#48: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: kman,

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:27 pm

Any progress on this mod yet, still intersted.
KMAN

#49: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:29 pm

Fitment tomorrow ... write up to follow

#50: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:48 pm

Wheel conversion kit is ready to go!

Here is what comes in the $120 shipped kit ($20 more than I originally anticipated, but it includes shipping)
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/kit-1.jpg
Hub adapter and drum filler cover are as-machined aluminum - so you can choose to anodize, paint, or powdercoat to your color choice. M10 bolts are grade 10.9 and M8 bolts are 8.8.

You need to supply a suitable '81-83 16" rear wheel. I snagged one off eBay for $4 with drive hub & trim, full brake hub, axle, and lousy tire! I suggest you remove the tire and degrease the wheel before starting on the conversion. If you are going to paint it, wait until you are done and/or put the tire on.

Remove the wheel bearings (1 on drum side and 2 on drive side). I suggest tapping in the drum side bearing a bit to use the inner spacer sleeve to push out the 2x drive side bearings a bit. Once there is a little clearance, a long drift can be used thru the ID of the bearings/spacer sleeve to drive the opposite side bearings out. Because the bearings are being driven out via the ID races, they will be ruined and cannot be reused. That is why I supply new bearings in the kit.

Step 1 - Drive side: remove the 4 Philips screws that hold on the drive side outer trim ring and remove the ring (keep if you plan to reuse - your choice).
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-1.jpg
Step 2 - Drive side: remove the 5x M10 bolts holding on the spline-drive hub and remove the hub (discard or save as a spare).
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-2.jpg
Step 3 - Drive side modification plan
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-4.jpg
Step 4 - Brake side modification plan
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-3.jpg
Step 5 - Remove drive side material. I used a body grinder with a 4.5" cutoff and grind wheels. This is a clearance cut and part mating surfaces aren't affected - hence lathe-type accuracy isn't required.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-5.jpg
Drive side pilot cut off ...
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-6.jpg And ground flush to original bearing press stop surface
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-6a.jpg
Step 6 - Remove brake side material. Again I used a body grinder setup. Again a clearance cut to the drum filler cover, but some fine tuning may need to be made once the wheel is installed (the drum filler cover doesn't turn with the wheel so it needs ~1-2mm clearance to the final surface).

Remove the outer flange ...
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-7.jpg Grind down the remainder of the outer flange and the brake hub flush with the surface that is between them
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-7a.jpg
Step 7 - Clearance drill the original spline-drive hub mounting holds ... 7/16" drill bit works well
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-8.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-8a.jpg

Step 8 - Brake side hole cleanup ... chamfers and washer clearance grind (body grinder fits if careful)
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-9.jpg

Step 9 - Install rotor hub adapter over drive side pilot and insert 5x M10 bolts/washers from drum side. I suggest a bike trial fit before final assembly that should include blue threadlocker and a final torque.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-10.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-10a.jpg

Step 10 - Install rotor onto hub adapter with 6x M8 bolts/washers (or original strap tabs under original rotor bolts). Again, this is a trial fit, but final assembly will include blue threadlocker and a final torque.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-11.jpg

Step 11 - 6303 drum side bearing. Install flanged ID reducer into bearing and then install bearing into drum side of wheel with the flange of the ID reducer towards the center of the wheel. A press is ideal, but a 32mm socket and hammer works well.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-12.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-12a.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-13.jpg

Step 12 - 6302 hub side bearing install into rotor hub adapter. Again, a press is ideal, but a 30mm socket and hammer works well.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/step-14.jpg

At this point the wheel is ready for a trial fit ...
Pre-trial comparison LH side
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/before-lh.jpg
Pre-trial comparison RH side
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/before-rh.jpg
Original front wheel brake rotor to LH fork groove clearance
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/before-rotor-clearance.jpg

Converted wheel installed (still needs inner spacer sleeve, speedo drive/seals installed in rotor hub adapter - provisions are there). Inner spacer sleeve may be a modified front wheel original or a new one made from 3/4" OD x 1/16" wall tube.
LH side
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/after-lh.jpg
RH side
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/after-rh.jpg
Brake rotor to LH fork groove clearance
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/after_rotor-clearance.jpg
Caliper clearance is fine and the drive side outer trim ring should clear too
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/caliper-clearance-1a.jpg

The wheel is nicely centered between the forks - perhaps favors the LH side by ~1mm, but I'm not going to worry about it since the rotor in the LH fork groove is perfect. The following shows how adjustments can be made to the axle and the RH axle spacer to center the wheel and to properly reposition the axle for final torquing and cotter keying.
Axle installed - looks like I need to grind down the RH side axle end ~3-4mm per the mod description below
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/axle-install.jpg
Axle minor mods
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/COSDEVSVT/Cafe%20XV750/wheel%20conversion/axle-mod.jpg
Since this was the first trial, I still need to final fit my inner spacer sleeve and finish the install of the LH side speedo drive and seals (all parts can be easily pulled from your original front wheel and be reused). You can have the hub adapter and drum cover anodized, painted, or coated prior to final assembly ... I'm probably going to paint before final assembly.

Next up I'll get a tire on the wheel and try this with some lowered forks.

So who's interested in a kit?

#51: Author: Matthew,

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:46 pm

Ok now do a dual disc version for $180 or less

Just note that version and a dual version will fit other bikes. Like the XJ Maxim, Seca, Vision and others.........

Your gonna be a busy man ;)

#52: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:33 pm

I've thought about doing an early 2.15x18" rear/rear-on-front Seca wheel conversion, but I hear the drum of early Seca (XJ650) rear drum is larger diameter so this drum filler cover won't work. The rotor hub adapter will fit fine however.

If I can get my hands on a complete dual disk and fork setup for cheap I might look into it. Necessity was the Mother of Invention for this (free bike) version ...

#53: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:56 pm

are you using the front axle or the rear axle?
do you have other kits for sale? or do they have to be made when ordered?......dan

#54: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: kman,

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:10 pm

I'm ready for a kit, hey since i live about an hr or so away can i just come and pick it up, bring my wheel with me and maybe you could give me a hand with it, would be much appreciated thats for sure.
KMAN

#55: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:13 pm

Reuses front axle. When I won my eBay $4 rear wheel, I also got a $4 front wheel with an axle ... so I have a spare to play with.

I have 9 kits ready to ship - just need payment or a deposit to reserve. If you're interested please send me a PM. Will make more if there is more interest.

kman - could at least meat you halfway or something. The hardest part is getting the old bearings out - everything else is straightforward.

#56: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: kman,

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:34 pm

Put me down for 1 kit, also sending you a pm.
KMAN

#57: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: Fenister,

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:38 pm

I'm new here, but I sure am interested. And the price sounds more than fair. Do you have paypal?

Greets, Alex

#58: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: MOTOGREG,

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:26 am

Conversion looks great!!! You have a PM. Woo Hoo

#59: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:41 am

how's it run out?

#60: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:00 pm

graz
with the spacer. shouldnt that keep the run out?.....dan

#61: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:39 pm

i was referring to how'd it handle going down the road and leaning into and through turns not wheel runout

#62: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:51 pm

ooohhh sorry graz.
he is putting the lowered forks on then the test ride begins.......dan

#63: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:01 pm

This is a project bike and I don't even have a tire on it yet to test out ride quality - that isn't going to happen til Spring.

As far as wheel runout, it is identical to an OE wheel (assuming the wheel isn't bent).

As far as brake rotor runout, IMO my adapted rotor (a spare I had) is running truer in the fork groove than the original wheel/rotor ... maybe by a couple thou at worst. Perhaps the original 19" wheel and/or rotor was tweaked - don't know for sure.

#64: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:15 pm

Quote: › next up I'll get a tire on the wheel and try this with some lowered forks.

since no time frame was suggested i mistakingly assumed you were going on with the project daily...thanx for the heads up...frankly i don't see why anyone would want to alter a fine handling steering geometry such as the viragos possess...different strokes for different folks but...since fork shake is one drawback you could face you might consider a stabilizer of some kind to deal with all that added weight

#65: Author: mcarter-17,

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:53 pm

I,d have trouble buying this set up with out someone haveing tried it ,on the road, at speed. It,s not that costly an experiment but . All the parts i create are tested on my bike under everyday applications. If it don't work i work on it till it does.So, how does it run out??

#66: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:27 pm

that is 1 down fall of living in the north-east area..weather kinda stops our wheels of motion....dan

#67: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:40 pm

Quote: › "An Yamaha XV750 made in 81, rebuild 2008. Sharp steering and bad brakes"

not for nuthin' the guy that built the original bike that everyone wants to copy says that it is a dangerous and ill handling machine...makes ya wonder

#68: Author: tarzan,

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:02 am

I don't know if it would ride similar to a harley Fatboy,but my buddy has one and I rode it.It handles poorly.

#69: Author: Matthew,

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:06 am

Can't be no worse then other bike mods, like 80ft apes or fenderless rides that strip your back, rear tire so wide you can't lean, ridgid seats made from a 2x4, gas tank made from a 20oz plastic bottle needing to stop ever half mile..............

#70: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:19 am

i am lost here. hope some of you guys can help out.
you are saying this will effect the handling of the bike. in what way does this go to the danger zone?
are you talking high speeds? or every day rides to the store and back?
i for 1 wanted to do this but now i dont know. i have a bike that i use for long rides..(all stock).
the bike i want to do this to will be ridden to shows.. mostly local events. speeds wont go over 50 mph..
how i feel is if i am doing this to a second (project) bike then what is the harm...thanks for any input....dan

#71: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:38 am

I'm not building my bike as a long-distance cruiser or sport bike ... there are reasons why those types of bikes exist. This is a custom project that is a total departure from what the original bike was intended to be - they're built all the time and people ride them whether they are ideal or not.

This is a hobby vehicle for me - one that I'll probably take to some local shows/bike nights, maybe take for the occasional weekend ride ... this is not intended to be a daily ride for me. My garage is too full of other - more capable - toys.

#72: Author: streetbrawler750,

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:07 pm

PM Sent, let me know if you get it.

#73: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:25 am

Didn't get it - you can send me an email at racer6692@yahoo.com if you like.

#74: Author: JayDanielz,

Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:17 pm

grazingazer wrote (View Post): › frankly i don't see why anyone would want to alter a fine handling steering geometry such as the viragos possess...

Same reason that Dan is trying to figure out the logistics for a coil-on-plug mod....cos he can...it's a fun, entertaining and educating experiment....and in the end, when someone asks "who designed that mod for you?"..you simply smile, sit back and say "I did.."

It's all part of the fun of owning a Virago!

#75: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:44 pm

like i said different strokes for different folks but i still don't understand ruining the ride of a great bike whether it's just because you can or whatever...and it in no way compares with dans ignition project which if properly executed may indeed be an improvement on the breed...constructive criticism may save your life if you are willing to listen and weigh it's worth...i made most of my stupid mistakes years ago...now i try to do things the right way for the right reasons at the right time and keep my fingers crossed that every thing comes out ok...lol

#76: Author: streetbrawler750,

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:38 pm

I am sending you an e mail.

#77: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: mekboy,

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:11 pm

This is a purely visual mod, I don't think anybody is going to try to argue that it improves performance in any way shape or form. But I still think it looks boss. I can't understand why people like ape hangers, floor boards, and a metric tonne of chromed billet parts, but they do.

This is a simple mod, and very well done even though as a machinist I cringe a bit at using an angle grinder to trim the hub. Not everyone has a lathe or a mill handy and it did the job.

I'd do this mod if it didn't make the bike ride like a cement truck. I might still do it if one day I decide to go for a retro styled XV.

#78: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:20 pm

have any of you guys experienced a high speed wobble...what we used to call a tank slapper...the front wheel statrs shaking hard enough if you're going fast enough to snatch the handlebar right out of your grip then the bar starts slapping the tank propelled by the wheel wobbling from lock to lock at high speed...if you think fast enough you can back down on the throttle and bring the bike back under control...while all this is going on [if you find yourself in traffic] every cage you see is multiplied by several more stacked on top of each other...if you don't get control back you're going down hard...now diminish your rake into the danger zone...add a fat heavy wheel to the front of your bike and you're shooting craps with bad dice...i've been there dudes...low ridin' and highsidin' with no safety net

#79: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: mekboy,

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:31 pm

Yeah, I've had tank slappers. But I wouldn't jump on an R1 to ride around australia or try to push a goldwing round Phillip Island and the same goes for this bike. You build a bike towards a goal. The goal of this one is not racing.

#80: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:39 pm

well graz you gave me the answer i have been looking for...by changing the caster (pitch of the forks) too far negative (inward) we will be loosing the balance of the bike..so in sense the front tire wont be riding on the bottom but towards the front..i get it!!.....dan

#81: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: eddiethetech,

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:25 pm

Gyroscopic effect. Axle ahead of the forks, downward weight is behind the moment of inertia. Move the center of inertia toward the bike and the stability decreases as the weight moves closer to the steering axis. Sport bikes have a smaller front wheel for this reason. But too much rake and a heavier wheel will induce instability because of its greater rotating mass. Also why long rake customs do OK with a skinny (lighter) front wheel.
I suspect a heavy front wheel will perform best with zero lead/trail, with weight centered on the axle.

#82: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:38 pm

actually the long rake bikes are more stable at speed but that's only going straight...it was the jacked up forks with no added rake that caused the wobbling problems back in the day...keep your trail at 3-6 and it'll go straight and turn...like jamaica mon...no problem

#83: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: Polishdog,

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:01 am

Given the last two replies, would it help to have a slightly thinner tire on the front?

#84: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:42 am

i dont think its the thickness..its where the tire will ride at...the way i am seeing it (i might be wrong).. be like sitting in the first seat of a roller coaster going down hill...dan

#85: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: exit27,

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:12 am

You guys are are causing me to have a a PTSD flashback about oscillation etc. One time I got a steering/suspension oscillation going on another (relatively stock) bike, and while it was shaking, I swear the frame seemed to have the "rubber pencil" thing going, twisting side to side. Somehow I got it under control, and pulled over and gasped like a fish out of water for a while. As stated elsewhere, the rear wheel on the front is probably meant more as a cosmetic modification than a performance one, but I'd stress that fact to the max, and state it strongly in any sales agreement. If a wobble starts, there doesn't have to be a warning, and if you're not lucky, the immutable laws of physics will conclude the matter.

#86: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:28 am

Polishdog wrote (View Post): ›
Given the last two replies, would it help to have a slightly thinner tire on the front?

provided that the trail is in range a thinner tire on the front than at the rear will let you corner faster because it reduces the tendency to flop into the turn and can be countersteered with at a faster rate

#87: Author: totallyredvirago,

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:49 am

dont get me wrong i see nothing wrong from what he is doing...like he stated this is a project bike.(show only)..i along as him are not doing this to our cruisers (everyday riders) and highly recommend not doing it to your everyday rides. to me it looks cool as poop...

what to thank all that has brought out the safety hazards.. i did not know about..my wife wants to drive my project bike when i am finished with it.. and if i didnt know about the hazards how do you think i would feel at the grave site....dan

#88: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:00 pm

Sorry I can't verify ride/handling ... won't be until mid/late Spring at least (assuming my project stays on-track).

This thread was about IF is can be done - not if it SHOULD it be done. So I've figured out and provided the way ... up to individual choice to do it and preference if they want to keep it - nothing here is irreversible. I recommend a spare front axle be used, but a spacer could be added to take up any material that may need to be removed from your one-and-only. I could include an new axle and inner bearing spacer sleeve in the kit - but the cost will go up and I doubt people would be that interested anymore.

Two guys have purchased kits and are in the conversion process. Both are happy with the quality of the parts and feedback from one said the hardest part was getting the old bearings out of the wheel - but otherwise no major issues. Unfortunately, both are in wintery climates as well and won't be testing the ride until Spring.

#89: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:25 pm

Quote: › "This thread was about IF is can be done - not if it SHOULD it be done"

this thread is what it is...if you post you should expect people to comment on your ideas...you may not agree with their comments but they do have as much right to submit them as you have to start the thread

#90: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: XV1100RH,

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:32 pm

A thoughtful, reasoned and well-considered thread!

Imagination, theory, experience, application, discussion and rebuttal.

This is as good as a public forum gets!

Next we wait for a hardy soul to run the experiment, collect and report on the data, and move to the next step.

Dog-gone good for the "Supreme Idiot Beings over at ViragoTech."
(I just had to get in a lick, even if late!)

heehee

Life is good!
moon

#91: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:43 pm

#92: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:17 pm

grazingazer wrote (View Post): › this thread is what it is...if you post you should expect people to comment on your ideas...you may not agree with their comments but they do have as much right to submit them as you have to start the thread

I wasn't complaining - just expressing my viewpoint and an update to most of the questions I receive. And I didn't start the thread ... just a contributor.

#93: Author: grazingazer,

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:34 pm

iforgot since you've pretty much dominated it with your build...i mistakenly assumed it was your thread...i offer my apologies on that score

#94: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: Polishdog,

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:12 pm

Just curious... would anyone know if these parts will work on a 95-96 XV750?

#95: Author: Cafe-XV750,

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:08 pm

After looking at eBay pics of a 95 XV1100 wheel, I'd say no. The drum side 'could' be similar, but the drive side appears to have a different spline-drive arrangement ... a larger bolt-circle 6-bolt pattern attachment vs. the kits 5-bolt pattern.

#96: Re: Rear Rim on the Front Author: kman,

Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:44 pm

THe kit is top notch quality thats for sure and really easy to do, tire is going to be ordered after the holidays and i'll be ready for a test ride once the snow clears,lol and i finish up the new experimental tank i'm installing.
KMAN

#97: Author: Matthew,

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:34 pm

Part II of this thread

http://viragotechforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=21029

ViragoTechForum.com » Choppers, Customs, Café » Rear Rim on the Front Part I made by Cafe-XV750

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