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ViragoTechForum.com Power Adder All Copper Intake Manifold

#1: Idea All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Scotsman828 Post Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:50 pm

First off let me say that I'm not posting this to get attention or to compete with P.O.L. Mafia or anyone who may be making an intake manifold. I simply wanted to post a How To Guide for anyone who may want to frabricate one themselves. PLEASE, don't ask me to make one for you I don't have the proper tools to mass produce this intake, thanks.
Here are the parts you will need:
Some 1/4 or 5/16 inch flat plate copper (this will be the hardest part to find. Try your local recycle center or an electrical company. Electrical bus bars are your best bet)
5- 1 1/2" Copper street elbows (two will be sacraficed to make sleeves)
1 - 1 1/2" Copper coupling
Mapp Gas or Oxy/Acetalene Torch
Silver Solder (much stronger than ordinary solder)
Flux Paste
Sand Paper
Angle Grinder with Cutting Blade
Drill
Bastard File
First once you locate the plate copper, take one of your Carb Grommets and either use a permanent marker or a scratch awl (prefered) and trace the outline of the grommet mount cylinder head side, then trace the mount holes and the intake hole. Then use the angle grinder with the cutter blade and cut away the outer edges where you marked the copper plate. If you have a band saw you're lucky, either way be sure to wear eye and ear protection! Copper isn't as easy to cut as you may think. Ok now that you have cut out THREE FLANGES, drill the mount holes. Now I recommend screwing the flanges to a board, here's why. If you do not have a drill press or a side cutting tool similar to a Router, you are gonna have to drill out the big intake hole and having it mounted to a board allows you to drill it evenly. Take a punch and on the intake circle line you traced make punch marks every 3/16 of an inch until you have completed the circle. Then use an 11/64" drill bit and drill out all the little punch marks. Now that you have it all drilled what you will have to do is either file out the remaining copper between the drill holes or do as I did just tilt the drill bit back and forth to get the copper between the holes down to a minimum. Now take a hammer and knock out the center. Here is where the Bastard File comes in and a little elbow grease, file down the remaining copper until the small end of the street elbow fits inside the flange. Two more flanges to go. ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?



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Here's what you're shooting for!
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Insert small end of Street Elbow in one flange and the sleeve made from the sacraficed elbow in the other flange.
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Now insert the flange with the sleeve into the large end of another street elbow
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#2:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Scotsman828 Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:22 am

Stay tuned for more! Beers


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Now join the two ends, this make the top half of the manifold.
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#3:   Author: blinginxv700 Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:05 am

Cool

#4:   Author: P.O.L. Mafia Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:03 am

That is going to be SWEET!!!, and you can take all the shine you want m8.

#5:   Author: turtlspd Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:15 am

Can't wait to see the finished product. WTG...

#6:   Author: Spindlehead Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:19 am

Very cool, man. It should turn out great. Nice approach, too -- anyone who can sweat water pipes should be able to pull this off. I'm looking forward to seeing how you join the carb leg.

As you mentioned above, the hardest part of your design might be getting the copper plate. In the McMaster-Carr catalog, a 6" X 6" X .25" thk copper plate is $54 ($68 for 5/16" thk). You can do a little cheaper with brass or bronze. One option for folks trying to copy your design is to use aluminum for the flanges. Aluminum plate is pretty cheap. One should be able to solder or braze the copper tubes to 6061 aluminum. I would do an interference fit then put on a nice fillet of braze or solder as a seal. That way, the pipe and the flange will take all of the load and the weaker solder material won't be over-stressed.

#7:   Author: motormouse Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:05 pm

Very nicely done.

#8:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Scotsman828 Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:11 am

OK, Here we go! Next important step. If you're gonna use Mapp Gas, here is a quick helper. There are two types. One won't get hot enough because it has two settings ON and OFF. The other (which is the good one) has a valve to adjust the flame. (MUCH HOTTER) pissed


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#9:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Scotsman828 Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:34 am

Step three, the elbow that is to be welded to the flange with the sleeve needs to be shortened. On the small end put a mark 3/16" from the end then cut.


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Last edited by Scotsman828 on Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

#10:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Scotsman828 Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:46 am

Step Four, time to weld the elbows to the flanges. Attach both flanges with the elbows inserted to the cylinder heads. Now mark with a permanent marker or metal awl the elbows and the flanges
with a straight line so when you take the flanges and elbow off the heads for welding then you have marks to line up the elbow's position in the flange. ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WELD THE MANIFOLD WHEN ATTACHED TO THE CYLINDER HEADS! Remember your cylinders are made of aluminum and it melts at a lower temp than copper. So please don't mess up your bike.



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#11:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Scotsman828 Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:10 am

Step Five, Now that you have the elbows and flanges welded. Put the two ends together and install on cylinder heads to test fit. Now put two straight line marks where the two end join. Again so you can align the two ends properly before welding. Your marks should look like this +.
Now take it back off and weld away, you'll notice that it takes longer to get the up to welding temp. That's because there's more metal to heat up.



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#12:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Scotsman828 Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:28 am

Step Six, Now that you have both ends of the top manifold welded, allow the section to cool a short time, now use slip joint (channel lock) pliers to grasp the still too HOT TO TOUCH section and attach to cylinder heads. Heat tends to make metal expand and move so attaching to cylinder heads when hot will make sure it cools in the correct position. Be careful and don't burn yourself!


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#13:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Scotsman828 Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:51 am

Step Seven, Time for the Drop Leg of the manifold. On the drop leg elbow put a mark 1/2" from the end on the large end of the elbow, now cut away that section. Now with the top half of the manifold still attached to the cylinder heads, place the big end of the drop leg elbow under the top section in the center. Now eyeball where you think it looks to be sticking out straight between the cylinder heads. I used the side casing as a straight edge for referance. Now mark that position on both sides of the drop leg elbow. Now you need to take an angle grinder or band saw to cut a half moon shape into the drop leg elbow.


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#14:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Scotsman828 Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:56 am

More views of drop leg.


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#15:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Scotsman828 Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:10 am

Step Eight, Now that you have the drop leg elbow cut down to fit the upper section. It's time to put the drop leg under the top section attached to the cylinder heads, check to make sure your drop leg is still in the proper position. now mark the top section where the drop leg will attach. Detach the top section from the cylinder heads. Again use a angle grinder with a cutting disk or a band saw to cut away the opening for the drop leg elbow. Some finessing will get the sections to match up. Try to get as close a fit as possible so there won't be any large gaps to fill with the Silver Solder. Now install once again the cylinder heads to ensure proper alignment.


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#16:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Scotsman828 Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:35 am

Step Nine, Onc again remove all the components from your motor. Now comes the hard part, flip the upper section so the drop leg hole is in the up position. Now you have to use a pair of pliers to hold the drop leg in place long enough to place a tack weld on one side. allow the tack weld to cool slightly. Now make sure the drop leg is seated in the correct position. On the opposite side of your tack weld begin to heat and weld the gaps and work your welds toward the tack weld. Now allow to cool.


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#17:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Scotsman828 Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:45 am

Just a few more things to do. But while you're waiting here are some teaser shots.


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#18:   Author: turtlspd Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:42 pm

Have you got it running yet? Love to hear more...

#19:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: grazingazer Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:44 pm

thanx scottsman...it's downright gorgeous...scotch irish meself and master of all i survey...as long as no-one objects...so can you fix my sink...just kiddin BurnOut

#20:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Scotsman828 Post Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:52 pm

Hey everyone, for now I'm going to use my Hitachi carb, so I'm just going to use a piece of radiator hose attach the old carb to the manifold. The reason I'm not using the old carb grommet is that it pushes the carb out an extra 1 1/2 inch which I don't want. As soon as I can buy the new Bendix carb, I will make a 3rd mount flange for the new carb. I'll post photos when finally finished.

#21:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: mikel Post Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:37 pm

Hey Scottie,
That looks very nice...do i see forward controls on yer baby there?? Looks like you have plenty of leg room for forward controls if yours is not. Let me know how the carb works out. I'm thinking of doing the same mod.

Scotsman828 wrote (View Post): Hey everyone, for now I'm going to use my Hitachi carb, so I'm just going to use a piece of radiator hose attach the old carb to the manifold. The reason I'm not using the old carb grommet is that it pushes the carb out an extra 1 1/2 inch which I don't want. As soon as I can buy the new Bendix carb, I will make a 3rd mount flange for the new carb. I'll post photos when finally finished.

#22:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: eaglebeak Post Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:03 am

Hey Scottie - that's gonna be a beaut. Keep after 'er with a can of Brasso until you can see the cracks between your teeth in the reflection - oh yea!!

Don't know the measurements of the Bendix carb, but how does it compare with a Mikuni HSR-42 flatside? Most folks get into the intake manifold conversions and don't realize that leg clearance with an air filter attached can be a major bummer. Gotta think "thin-thin-thinner" in both carb and air filter thickness when it's all mounted on a slim-bodied Virago.

Good luck and keep the pics coming.

EB

#23:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: mcampbell Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:13 pm

Has anyone used this setup before, i see the carb is setting below the intake tubes do you have any trouble with gas puddling in the lower tube? Was thinking of the way a car is set up with the gas going down not up. Anyway the reason i ask is im making one right now and want to know the best way for the carb tube to go, even with the other tubes, below like this one or above so the fuel flows down? Any input would be very helpfull, Thanks in advance..by the way great write up on this

#24:   Author: P.O.L. Mafia Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:20 pm

Ive sold to date, about 100 of these in steel form. When they are set up correctly there is no fuel puddle and you better hang on when you rap the throttle. There is a plus side to it as if you float sticks open or the pets go bezerk you wont flood the engine with gas. I build this intake so if you have any questions shoot away. You can also look at http://www.ccworks.org/ witch is my site for info or simply do a search for P901 on this site to get more info than you can read.

#25:   Author: usmc_dad_0341 Post Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:30 pm

POL is right on the money here. Before I switched to one of his manifolds - I changed my oil at least three times due to fidle fucin around with float settings on my hitachis. White smoke, smelly oil, etc, been there.

After the P901 UPGRADE, my fuel in oil problems ceased - eventhough I still had setup issues with my Mikuni HS40. Now that it's all running correctly and my bike is running, I have noticed ZERO fuel puddling or fuel-in-oil problems.

Chief

#26:   Author: jgc Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:21 am

the 901 is a great manifold would never go back to stock i tried several carbs i am now using a harley cv cranks right up and runs very good

#27:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: mcampbell Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:07 pm

Hey that harley cv carb, is it the 40 that you are running, did you have to change the jets? Thought about going with one too. Does it mount with a boot or flange?Wow i love this site

#28:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: mcampbell Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:21 pm

OK i built one. But i think mine is a little shorter than this one so my carb thats half the size of the motor will sit in a little more, or so i hope and i have mine set to have the carb on the left side. If it dont work ill just have to buy one from cc works. Thats what i was going to do anyway but im one of those people that just have to try and make it first. Anyway this was real easy so if it dont work no prob. Now to rebuild the carb.Are both carbs the same? Was going to use the front carb. confused

#29:   Author: Matthew Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:27 pm

Each carb has different parts inside but are the same carb. Id use the one with less linkage. you'll see when ya take em apart. One will have a tiny stub left n the other will have a big long hunk left. Easier to remove the smaller piece.

I wonder how a square or hex tube would work?

#30:   Author: P.O.L. Mafia Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:35 pm

What mat said,,,,, you need to use,,,,,,,,,, crap

#31:   Author: P.O.L. Mafia Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:37 pm

Sorry, had to refferance my site,,,,,

http://www.ccworks.org/portal.php?page=7&sid=708c61a09cf90a30dce484cfe3b98fa5

do what you read here.

#32:   Author: P.O.L. Mafia Post Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:38 pm

and by all means pass on the info so we can spread the wealth,,, K

#33:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Kayaker56437 Post Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:03 pm

WOW very impressive. Not sure it's less $$ thaan buying a 901, but you can sure take pride in experimenting and the DIY aspect.

#34:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: Metalhell Post Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:56 am

i like that build copper not a problm im a junker get those type of fittings all the time get bus bar too going to convert my project to one carb

#35:   Author: Metalhell Post Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:26 pm

so how does it hold up to vibration

#36:   Author: yamaguzzi Post Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:03 pm

mh: you will need to build in a mounting strap to help stabilize the breather...keep us posted on your progress,,yg

#37:   Author: RValley Post Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:58 pm

i found about the cheapest place to get copper flat stock 2.5"x12" for 25 bucks
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4289&step=4&showunits=inches&id=253&top_cat=87

#38:   Author: funkamongus Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:25 am

Looking good Scottie!!

#39:   Author: drkstr47 Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:03 am

Excellent !!!! Your instructions are easy to read & comprehend & the photos illustrate perfectly. This'll be saved for a winter project...........Thank you..

#40:   Author: yamaguzzi Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:35 pm

has anyone considered copper s sensitivity to heat and its tendency to expand and contract moreso than other metals. just a thought. yg

#41:   Author: Jake Post Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:33 pm

Does anyone realize that the project maybe wasn't finished and the last post from Scotsman828 on this was May 4, 2007 ?

#42:   Author: bsm1729 Post Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:33 am

i thought about making a manifold like this for my 750 but figured that the hitachi would be enough fuel or air for both cylinders, let me know how it runs for you
good luck

#43:   Author: RValley Post Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:38 pm

mine works great with a cv carb

#44:  Re: All Copper Intake Manifold Author: bsm1729 Post Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:25 am

k
if nothing else pans out on this bike that might be the direction ill go with it
ViragoTechForum.com Power Adder All Copper Intake Manifold


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